[E199] Why Won't They Act Their Age?

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Empowered to Connect podcast, where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and wellbeing for ourselves, our families, and our communities. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Hey, all. Tana Ottinger here and back in the studio with two of my very favorite people, Becca and Jesse. And we are going to talk about something today that I know I can relate to, and I hope all of our listeners can as well. So before we jump into the topic, let's do like a fun little check in. So let's do one word for how you're doing today. How about that? A quick little feelings check in, which is something we do a lot around the ETC offices. So every meeting kind of starts with the check in. So what y'all got going on today? I didn't prep them with this question. We're recording on a Monday morning, which is why they're like, we do not know it's Monday. We have been singing our way through the day. So far, we've done a couple of things together and we kind of all keep breaking out in song. So I don't really know what that says about our day. [00:01:10] Speaker A: I don't know if our listeners want to experience not what we're going to. [00:01:13] Speaker B: Do next, but that is what we've been doing before we hit record. All right, so check in. [00:01:19] Speaker C: I think if I had to pick a word for how I've been the last few days, it would be contemplative. A lot of, like, reflecting and thinking and pondering. That's kind of where my. My head's been at. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Thanks for sharing that. I love that. [00:01:34] Speaker A: I think my one word is full. My brain is full. I'm currently in the different hats that I wear in life, having to hold a lot of information and lists and, like, making sure everything's ready for various projects. And so I feel. I feel very full. [00:01:58] Speaker B: I love that. Thank you all for sharing. I think my word would be grateful. I woke up this morning, I think, with a lot on my mind. But then I realized, like, I'm holding very little of that alone. So I think really, really thankful. Mo's been traveling. He was out of town all last week. He got back late last night and I had just this deep exhale of gratitude of, like, my parenting partner's back. I don't have to carry all this alone. And then I was on my way into the office this morning talking to one of my dear lifelong friends. It's a single mom. And just empathizing with her about that. She doesn't have that second support. And, like, what that might feel like to her on the daily basis. So I'm in a spirit of personal gratitude. Mo's home. And then when I put my work hat on, grateful to have a team to hold things together. So I'm feeling some gratitude. Okay, thank y'all for sharing that. Let's jump into our topic. And I. I am certain that if you've been parenting for more than five minutes, you may not have asked this question specifically, but something like this idea or concept has probably, like, moved across the fabric of your mind. So I hope this might actually give you some words for this sense of things that we might be feeling, which is, help my child won't act their age again. You may not have been literally saying to somebody in Target, help me, my kiddo isn't acting their age, but I think that we have moments in parenting where we think, oh, my goodness, if they would just fill in the blank like we think they should at whatever age they are, this moment or this stage or this season would go so much better. And I have to admit, we were in the middle of some homework struggles last week, and I may have accidentally said something kind of like this to one of our kids, which I know is a no. I know that I shouldn't do that, but it's that, ugh, if only you would blank as you should blank, my life would be a little bit easier right this very minute when I need to make dinner and get homework done. So I want to unpack that idea. When y'all hear that, do you relate to having felt that when you're interacting with kids? And then I would really like to sort of unpack some. Some ways that we might want to encourage ourselves to think. Think about it. What comes to mind? [00:04:28] Speaker A: Y'all know I love to write notes while people are talking, so I'm, like, furiously jotting down things that I'm. I can relate to. Like, yes. I felt that way when my kids were potty training. And it was like, every kid is kind of different in the way that they kind of learn how to do that. Right. And move through that stage. So it was like, oh, I. You know, it's so hard not to compare your kids with each other and also your kids with their peers or your kids with the kid in your mind. [00:05:01] Speaker B: Right? The kid in your mind. That does not exist. [00:05:04] Speaker A: The kid in my pint. My pinterest kid is kid. Oh, dear. I. I'm thinking about that in terms of, like, reading, and you were talking about homework. It was like the. The process of learning how to read or even learning those concepts that are pretty fundamental to, I don't know, the elementary school curriculum, like learning their multiplication times tables and all. All of that kind of stuff is like, how quickly does it come? How much does it stick? Or even, you know, this summer we were talking a lot of, in my house about organization and. Yeah, who is good at organization and who is not as good, you know, who. Who is. Has. That might not be their strength and life or in our family. So, yeah, those were a couple things I was relating to as I was like, oh, this true. [00:05:57] Speaker B: Doesn't feel age appropriate. [00:05:58] Speaker A: Like you are, you know, living up according to your age or what I would expect. [00:06:03] Speaker B: Right? [00:06:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:05] Speaker C: Off the top of my head, like four different things are, like, swirling. So like, the first one is having a little. A little kid being dropped off in Sunday school for the first time just this week. And that kid was really upset. Everyone else got in and was like, immediately playing and happy. And this one was upset. [00:06:23] Speaker B: Little bub was not having it. [00:06:24] Speaker C: Yeah, little bub was not having it. And it's like, easy to be like, why can't you act like the bigger kid? Like, like, you're big now. Why can't you? But just remembering, like, it's okay for him to feel upset that his mom is dropping him off, like, that's actually okay. So that one popped to mind, which also made me think of, I've got two nieces that are in first grade and pre K. And so just hearing how drop off is going for them and how even though they have the same parents, their reaction to that drop off has been really different. So like, talking about that. And then also I just. The question of why won't they act their age. I cannot think of a single school year where that question was not asked out loud in multiple meetings. As a school professional, because as a school professional, you are. Even if it's not on purpose, you kind of have in your mind, this is what fourth graders do, this is what second graders do. This is what pre K kids do. And so whenever there's a kid who's not fitting what's in your mind, your brain can jump there, just like you're saying, Tana. Like, even if you know that you should think about it differently or more nuanced, it does just kind of like pop up. So I'm just thinking, yes, this is such a relatable topic. I think anybody who's been around kids in any setting has at least thought it, even if they didn't say it out Loud. And it can be a hard feeling to feel because you're like, no, but. [00:07:44] Speaker A: Really, why won't you think? Seriously, I will say this is probably one of the ones that we talk about a lot on our team. And I still do it at home where I'll tell my teenager, okay, you are 14 years old. [00:08:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:02] Speaker A: And whatever that means for that conversation, or, like, you are 10 years old. It. I say these things where I'm expecting that teen or that child to, like. [00:08:13] Speaker B: Be thinking, yeah, Mom, I am. [00:08:15] Speaker A: What was there? [00:08:16] Speaker B: Do something. [00:08:17] Speaker A: Well, it's like, I think our kids do have expectations. Expectations of how they would feel and act when they were certain ages, too. You know, But I. I will admittedly say sometimes I use that against them, and I'm. I gotta stop doing that. [00:08:31] Speaker B: I know. I mean, I literally did it this week. Yeah. Something else that's popped up since y'all were talking for me is I. I do think we think about this. Our examples are even younger. But this can be just as true for kiddos as they're transitioning into young adulthood. Like, yeah, when do they. I mean, I've been talking to so many parents about how, at least in our area, kids are driving later and later, and maybe they aren't as interested in even starting to drive. I mean, the second I could get my driver's permit, that thing was in my hand. The second I could drive on my own, I was on the road. That has not been the case for some of the kids in our family as they've gotten older. And I think that that's becoming even more of a norm. So, like, I think there's also some societal changes that maybe are happening in terms of what does it look like to launch into independence? So those are the same. That's the same concept at a different age. Right. Why aren't they doing this by this certain time? [00:09:31] Speaker A: That's really highlighting transitioning, even just our expectations being generational. I might expect, you know, both of my kids to start driving the day they turn 16, when they may not be expecting that. Right. [00:09:44] Speaker B: They really. And they may not have such a desire to do such things. We don't have that as a different episode. [00:09:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:51] Speaker B: Because I think there's so much about the way kids are interacting with each other. They don't have that need to, like, get in the car and get to the mall to see their best friend. They can just FaceTime them. Okay, so let's. Let's talk about this idea, and I would love for us to use sort of some framework that we talk about here a lot, which is this idea of looking and thinking about kids with a. With a nuanced perspective that takes into account and account three things, which is age, stage, and state. So let's pick those apart a little bit. Let's think about this idea of age. And we might think of age as a number. They are blank. Jesse, you and I. Well, you said teachers think it. We've just admitted to actually saying it at home out loud. It's coming out of our mouths. But, man, there is so much more behind that. So Becca, help us unpack that a little bit. [00:10:48] Speaker C: Yeah, it's so easy to just. You said it, Jesse. To just be like you're 14 and then like whatever that means to you. So you shouldn't forget to do that or talk to so and so this way. Or you assign so much meaning just to that simple sentence. You're 14. And so when you think about how kids develop, it's easy to kind of think linear. Think about, like when people are talking to parents of newborns. There's so much conversation around when they should do X. They should sleep through the night at this point. They should roll over at that point. They should talk at this point. Here's the deal, though. Kids are developing across different. It's called domains of development. And they're not progressing at all the same rates, all the same times. And so what happens is a kid is progressing at different levels across these different domains. So think about the domains like their emotions. Some kids are very emotionally mature. Might be a word that we would in our society. Or they might have a little bit more trouble regulating emotions. They might be a little bit behind their peers when it comes to that. Think about their physical development. I think of the kids that are like, man, the athletes, like, nobody had to teach them when they were three years old. They were throwing the ball with like perfect accuracy. They were doing flips on the trampoline and they could land on their feet. Those kids might be progressing physically a little faster than their peers. They might be further ahead. You know, you think about the kids that get taller sooner and what does that mean for their basketball? You know, hopes and dreams. Then you've got school, age, their parents, basketball. Yes, Their parents, hopes and dreams. [00:12:24] Speaker A: And all they want to do is play the cello. [00:12:26] Speaker C: Right, right. Like, wasn't everybody watching the Olympics just like living for the moments where they, like, would pan to the parents? Like, it's just like that feeling of like, everybody wants that you want your kid to be so awesome at what they're good at. And so it's easy to put that pressure on kids. But then you think about their school age, right? Like in a classroom, kids are usually within 1 to 2 years age, chronological, age wise. But enter in any number of reasons and that kid could either, you know, think about the gifted kids. They could be with much older level peers or much younger level peers, depending on their school age. And then think about their cognition. So I think it's become way more and more common to talk about how our brains are not fully developed until we're 25. So some of those early 20s decisions, maybe we're not the most logical. That part of our brain, that logical cause and effect executive function could be developing at different rates. You might have a kid who's very logical, very young, or you might have a teenager who's making choices that don't make a whole lot of sense to you. All of these things can kind of come together and inform a kid's social age. So you've got kids, you know, from early ages that are either going to really relate to kids that are their same age, that are older or that are younger. That can have to do with sibling dynamics. It can have to do with intern interests, like as different kids progress into different interests. But your kid might be still interested in the same things they were interested in when they were younger, chronologically. And then last but not least, we want to think about their life experience. In our work, we work with a lot of kids who have adult life experiences and sometimes that can be hard to overcome because what we're asking kids to do is kind of do this juxtaposition. Like we want you to act eight, but when you've been through like 48 year old things and you're eight and then maybe you're physically like, who knows, you know, let's say maybe you're advanced physically, but your executive function is a little lower. The cause and effect isn't quite there, but you've got the, you know, experience of maybe caring for a sibling that was younger or things like that. So these things all come together. We have a literal visual of a puzzle that we like to talk about, that we like to teach through. And that, honestly for me, just pops into my head. A lot of times when I'm talking with kids or par. A lot of times this puzzle just pops up in my mind and I'm thinking, man, yeah, this is a really bright 16 year old. They're having some trouble regulating their emotions. And so. And that's okay. So how do we support them where they are in that developmental domain, to use the big word versus the other? So it's just not so linear. It's not so simple. And kids are all different, and there's a combination of nature and nurture that influences where they're going to be in any one of those puzzle pieces. [00:15:19] Speaker B: I'm going to put a little plug in. If you go to our website and go to digital downloads, we do have a digital download of that developmental puzzle. If you're a visual like I am. When somewhere early on in parenting, we were exposed to that developmental puzzle and the insight that it gave Mo and I to say, okay, our kiddo is complex. [00:15:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:47] Speaker B: And it allowed us to sort of untangle the nuance and complexity of that social, emotional, the physical, the academic, the chronological. And really, it felt empowering to me, which is why I'm still needing to admit that I actually still said that last week. And I kind of know better. Like, I. I think I know why that was happening in that moment. I can be curious about that, but it can be so incredibly insightful. And so if you're hearing this and you're thinking, I clicked on that episode title because I am deeply struggling with my kiddo sort of acting in ways that do not seem to be developmentally appropriate. I think it would be interesting to look at that visual and try to chart out maybe what you think that age looks like in their life experiences. Maybe they have gone through some transitions. Maybe they have had experiences in multiple transitions. If the kiddo has been in foster care, like, there's just a lot of things that can be a play. Jess, when you think about the developmental puzzle, what comes to mind for you? [00:17:01] Speaker A: Oh, I'm just thinking how helpful it is to be able to kind of, you know, when your kid isn't quote, unquote, acting their age. That is a frustrating place to be emotionally as a parent. And I think even being able to isolate. Well, actually, they're pretty developmentally on par, like, physically. And you know what? I'm actually. I think they're actually a little advanced socially. But what I'm thinking about is emotionally being able to isolate that area, whatever it is, maybe educationally, maybe, and it's. Maybe it's one of those areas that you're able to isolate it to, I think is just helpful as a parent to be like, you know what? Let's give my kid credit for all the things they are doing that, you know, it is not lagging. There's lots going on. I'm also Thinking how. And we'll talk about this soon. You were saying I should know better. Like sometimes we don't act our age. [00:18:00] Speaker B: Oh my gosh, isn't that the truth? Thank you for that, Jesse. [00:18:03] Speaker A: So like, and there are lots of reasons for that which we're unpacking in this episode. [00:18:07] Speaker B: So you've kind of hit on something that I think helps us transition. So when we talk about those three ways we can think about this age stage. So with the developmental puzzle, it's helping us think about the complexity of age. Age is more than like a chronological number. Let's talk about that stage part, which Becca, you kind of unpacked with like the domains of development. But let's talk about stage. What does that mean to y'all? [00:18:36] Speaker A: Well, I'm thinking about two things. I'm thinking about kind of, if I'm keeping in mind all of these domains of development and I'm thinking about kind of what's next in my child's development in their, in their growing up process. I am usually thinking about, okay, what's, what's next? What's coming ahead? And it makes me think about scaffolding skills. Regardless of how a, an 8 year old should act, what is the next thing my 8 year old needs to learn how to do in that isolated right. [00:19:13] Speaker B: Area you hit on, which I think is so insightful. How do I help that isolated area grow and develop? [00:19:20] Speaker A: So we've got a whole kind of idea behind that called scaffolding that, that then allows you to kind of think, okay, well where, where should they be? Quote unquote should. Right? Or where would I like them to be? What, what is their next. Yeah, what's next for them? And then you pick the very next step for that. Not the whole leap. But you know, if I, if I have an 8 year old who is unable to clean up their room, then you know, cleaning up their room is not what's. What the next step is. That is kind of the next holes. Yeah, the next step. [00:19:56] Speaker B: That's the goal. Right, the next step. [00:19:58] Speaker A: So the next step is going to be something more. Like I would like that child to hang up their towel at the end of their shower every day. Or I would like that child to put their clothes they take off at the end of the day in their dirty clothes and like, forget the stuffed animals. We'll tackle that another time. So I'm thinking about that and I'm also thinking about in each age you've got these, you know, if you study child development, you've got These challenges or tasks that a child needs to learn before they move on to their next developmental stage. And when I think about those challenges and tasks, they're not always. They're not always tasks that we like as parents. Right. Like in toddlerhood and preschoolhood, they're establishing their autonomy, which means they're getting comfortable with what, saying no. Right. And we don't love that as parents, but it's actually developmentally appropriate for that to be happening. Or I've got a tween and a teen in my house right now. Well, guess what's happen in those years. Like, we're learning how to again with our autonomy goals, like, establish that we have different ideas. So maybe there's some arguing involved because they don't agree with everything I say, or maybe there's this. This now new freedom to find their own brand and decide it's not going to be moms. And so anything mom likes is not cool anymore. And what I like is cool. None of those things feel good to me as a parent. They can be frustrating to me, and I might not even see them as acting their age. But if I really were to kind of step. Step aside for a second and look at it, I. I could actually be like, oh, this actually is their next step on their path to development. [00:21:52] Speaker B: What I'm wondering what age and stage the word bruh. I'm sorry to crack a joke. [00:21:59] Speaker A: I'm calling your parent bruh. [00:22:01] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. It happened this week. I was like, oh, dear. And then I saw a meme, like, right after it happened, and it was like the ages of child, you know, of childhood. And it was like, you know, mama, and then it was mommy, and then it was mom, and then it was bruh. I showed it to our tweens. I was like, so apparently we're in the bra era. And they were like, we are mom. [00:22:21] Speaker A: We were carpooling somewhere yesterday, and there. There was a sixth grader, an eighth grader, and a ninth grader in my car. The ninth grader was my child, and the sixth grader said, yes, ma'am to me. And I was like, thank you so much that I have not heard that phrase I spoken to me in a long time. And I turned to my ninth grader, and I was like, I mean, ma'am instead of like, Ms. Ma'am or girly pop or bruh or, you know, pookie. It's lately being referred to as pookie. [00:22:55] Speaker B: But you are a cute pookie. Jesse Pookie. Becca, what's on your mind when you think about that? [00:23:01] Speaker C: When I'm thinking about the idea of stage and scaffolding, and I love that Jesse's highlighting guys. Parts of child development are not fun for adults to experience. Like, the toddler whining is not fun, but it's appropriate. The teenage pushing and, like, trying to find their own voice doesn't feel great, but that's a good part of development. So I just really appreciated that reminder of, like, every stage has some things that are fun and not fun. So just to, like, remember that, I think that's cool. And then when. When you think about scaffolding kids, I think that's a term that we like to use around here. But, like, it can get a little bit like, okay, but what do you mean by that? And it really is that idea of, like, where do you wish that your kid was? And then instead of just constantly being frustrated that they're not there and saying it over and over. My expectation is a clean room. I have stated 1800 times, my expectation is a clean room. Susie, what do we say about our rooms? They should be what? They should be clean. Like, if we just do that over and over and over again, we're stating our expectations and we're being clear and we're being consistent, which people say you should do. But we're not giving them any support for any of the reasons why the room might not be getting cleaned. And there could be, if you look at this puzzle, lots of different reasons. It could be forgetfulness or a lack of organization. It could be exhaustion or a lack of motivation. It could be there's too many competing things and they can't pick which one to do first. Like, there's so many reasons. So I liked how you even in your example, just kind of broke it apart of, like, where do we start in order to get kids to be where they are? Because you don't, you know, whenever they're toddlers, it feels like they'll never stop wetting the bed. But most of the time, even if it requires some medical intervention or some different support, most of the time, for many kids, there is a season where that stage ends, and for some, it doesn't. And that's okay. Like, as a parent, you figure out, you know, the things that feel never ending, the arguing is going to feel never ending. And I can see 15 years from now, Jesse and Jesse's kids meeting up for coffee and just having such a beautiful, like, conversation. You know what I mean? Like, I can see that. I can see the seeds of that. Even if right now the tweenagerness is like, nothing you like is cool, and I will do everything to be different from you. Like, I remember that stage as a kid. So just remembering that things are even. We're using the word stage a couple different ways, but if you also think about it as like a phase, like, some of these things are phases. The Bruh phase era, maybe we're calling. [00:25:40] Speaker B: It at the house. [00:25:41] Speaker C: Maybe the Bruh era will last forever. But I would be surprised if at sweet baby girl's wedding, I would be surprised if she's like, come on, Bruh, let's do this. Maybe she will, but I don't think. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Well, I don't know. She's a little spicy, so maybe, but we'll see. [00:25:54] Speaker C: There will probably be a different nickname at that point that she's grown into. So just like. [00:25:58] Speaker B: Agreed. [00:25:58] Speaker C: Yeah, that was a little bit of an all over the place answer. But just this idea that, man, some things are appropriate but annoying, some things are maybe a little bit delayed behind peers or behind peers and how do we help them grow? And then no matter where they're starting from, no matter what our expectations are, there is. And I have seen kids can grow when given the right support. They may not. Like, wouldn't it be awesome if all of our kids were at the Olympics one day? Not everybody will have the physical development to be an Olympic champion, but that doesn't mean that they can't grow. [00:26:37] Speaker A: I was just going to jump in and say, I think between age and stage, as we pull those apart, there's so much parental expectation layered in those. And I think so much of it is. Is looking at what I'm actually expecting. I think when we consider age is what I'm expecting. Reasonable. [00:26:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:59] Speaker A: And then when I'm thinking about stage, I've moved on to thinking, like, about my kid and where they are right now. And the process of accepting where your kid is right now, that is no small thing. Right. Like, I think we could all have a whole whole series on that. [00:27:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:27:20] Speaker A: And so if. If you're listening to this and you're like, yeah, that's not taking away my frustration for y'all to pull these things apart. Like, I just want to validate the frustration and I want to encourage you to lean into those expectations and dig into where do they come from? And I think what is going to be inevitable is dealing with our own feelings about how our kids should be acting. Right? Right. At any age and stage, our kids gonna are gonna embarrass us at any age and stage, our kids are gonna disappoint us. Guess what? We'll probably embarrass them and disappoint them too. And I. I just think the grief of living a life growing up with our kids is like, it's just part of living with each other and part of parenting them and part of them growing up. And so I don't want to minimize that by being like, think about it logically. Yeah, we think about those things and, like, sit with those feelings and wonder where they come from and grapple with them and let yourself, you know, grieve what you hoped had been. Happen, had happening by now. Or like that the Pinterest kid in your dreams is not the kid that's walking through the door of your home. [00:28:40] Speaker B: And what maybe it's costing you to be present in the current age and stage, because there's quite likely a cost involved in terms of what is it asking of you to be present in that moment? What I'm certain of is if you sit with that grief and process it and feel it, on the other side of that is a little bit of joy and some creativity that you might not be experiencing right now because you may just be experiencing frustration and overwhelm and maybe a little disillusionment and confusion. [00:29:16] Speaker A: Can I say this, too? I have seen you live that. Like, I think something fun about the way that we are doing this episode or these types of episodes is that we know each other listeners. We are. Becca, Tana and I are friends. We live real life together. I have seen Tana grieve expectations she had and find the joy on the other side and find the creativity. I mean, it. It has pulled me along as a parent as well. And so it's. These are things we say, but they're also things we're experiencing and living. And yeah, there is. There is joy and creativity on the other side of that, but we have to. We have to experience the hard part of that first. [00:29:58] Speaker B: Name it and sit in it a minute. Thank you for that, Jesse. I appreciate that. Encouragement means a lot. Something we've hit on a little bit is this idea of state. And y'all been kind of hinting around it, but I think it comes into play even with this idea of, like, acceptance and understanding and being present with the actual child. So let's talk about what we mean when we use that word state. What is. What do we mean by that? [00:30:29] Speaker A: We like to use a phrase at etc. Called parent the child in front of you and in Fact, we had lots of talks about what semantically, did we actually want to say? Did we want to say parent the child. You have parent the child. [00:30:45] Speaker B: That's right. [00:30:46] Speaker A: You know what? How did we want to say that? And I think we landed on parent the child in front of you because the child you have looks different every single day from moment to moment. [00:30:56] Speaker B: That's right. [00:30:57] Speaker A: The child in front of you may be acting for when 15 minutes ago they were acting 14. And what does that mean? And that's what we mean when we talk about state, that in any given moment, we have a certain capacity for what is coming at us. And on a Monday, after a weekend of rest, I might be feeling ready for the. Ready for the day personally. And so my state. State, you know, Tana asked us, basically, what is your state as we started. I don't know if you plan to do that, but to tie that in, that's kind of what that was. Is like, what is your state for the day? Our kids experience that, too. You know, maybe they had a really busy weekend. Maybe they woke up early to do soccer games, and they were at the fields all day watching their siblings play. And it was hot and humid. And, you know, maybe there's all kinds of things going on. Maybe there's a big family transition. Transition happening in your house right now, or maybe they just started a new school or whatever is going on. Maybe they just woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. But our capacity in any given moment affects our state, and that affects whether we're going to act, quote, unquote, our age or not. It affects our behavior. [00:32:16] Speaker C: One of my favorite episodes that we've ever recorded was when my husband Rico came on to talk about stress, capacity. And it's something that in our marriage, we talk about a lot. Like, we could start today and both be like, we're in a good spot. And then, who knows, Like, I might get a text halfway through the day, like, I forgot to bring a lunch today. So when I get off work, I'm going to be kind of hangry. Like, so just that awareness. I think as adults, we're not always aware of our state. So when we talk about state, it's the physical, it's the emotional. It's the idea of how much challenge can I handle right now? Like, am I, like, like, ready to roll? I can handle anything that's thrown at me with, like, confidence and gumption. And I can try, even if it's not easy. Creativity, or am I at a little bit of a lower State. And the way this comes out with the conversation that we're having right now is, you know how to clean your room, you've done it 18 times. So what's happening today? Or I know you know how to ask me that without whining, what is happening? Like, what happens is we're like, the kid knows how to do this. And so we assign meaning and we go, therefore, they're choosing to act like a baby, be annoying. We assign meaning. They're making a choice instead of asking, what's their state right now? What other stressors have they been facing? Sometimes we know them, sometimes we don't. Maybe they did get overwhelmed at school. Maybe there's a pep rally and it was a lot of fun, but their little body got really overstimulated. So standing outside to wait for the car to pull them up in car line, that was the last straw. So when they got in the car, it's not that they had a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day, and that you really are the meanest mom ever, but what happened was they just reached that tipping point. So when you said, hey, honey, don't forget to close the door. Wow. And then it's like explosion. And that really has nothing to do with you saying, hey, honey, why don't you close the door? It has to do with what they've just been through. So your state changes all throughout the day. And it does change what you're able to do, like as adults and kids. So when we can be aware of it, it's not an excuse. It's not that it's okay for my kid or my husband to scream at me because they had a bad day, but it does help us have compassion for each other and understand where we are and support each other and getting. [00:34:34] Speaker B: Regulated and maybe set everybody up for success. Like just a little bit of insight on that idea right there can go a whole long way to benefiting us as parents and caregivers too. Like, if we can know, hey, usually Susie's getting in the car after that, you know, hot tennis practice, right? And what Suzy needs is some water and some protein and me just to be quiet and some music and maybe the window down and that question I want to chat about or that that homework test that we need to study for that I know is tomorrow I'm going to broach that topic in a about 30 minutes. So it does help us set ourselves and our kiddos up for success if we can be conscientious and mindful of our own state and theirs. [00:35:26] Speaker A: Okay? Can I throw myself under the bus? [00:35:28] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that'd be fun. [00:35:29] Speaker A: Let's do it. A couple of weeks ago at work in the office, I was having a stressful week, and Becca came in and tried to help me with something, and I snapped. I, like, stood up and was like, it's fine, blah, blah. I, like, said something really dismissive and then left the room and then later texted her. Like, that actually wasn't about that. That was about my stress capacity was pretty small, and something else was going on. And I'm thinking as we're sharing this, like, I could explain that as an adult. That same thing happens with our kids, but they have a different way. Like, a lot of them don't understand that they can't verbalize or vocalize that that's happening to them. And so they themselves might be wondering, why am I talking baby talk to my mom right now? You know? Or like, why am I. My younger daughter recently was like, why am I crying about this? [00:36:29] Speaker B: You're like, oh, who knows, honey? There's a lot of reasons. [00:36:32] Speaker A: So, like, in the same way that I could have texted Becca and been like, becca, this was about that. This. A lot of our kids can't tell that to us. And so, a lot, I think, underneath this question of why won't my child act their age is this requirement of us to be a little bit bigger, stronger, kinder. Right. It is that parent that is expecting their kid to be whiny and tired when they. They pop in the car from sports practice, and so they've got the sports drink and the protein ready. And it means that maybe we're walking our kids through that and helping them understand as they're growing up at different ages and stages of like, hey, you know, I know you didn't mean to yell at me. I wonder if you were feeling a little hangry or if I wonder. And I think I've been able to do that as my kids have been growing through these ages and stages. That's been pretty cool. My kids are now. My oldest child is old enough to verbalize sometimes. Hey, I'm pretty stressed out. [00:37:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:37:36] Speaker A: I'm. I feel like yelling. [00:37:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:38] Speaker A: And that is a win to me. [00:37:41] Speaker B: Unbelievable win. Because you've just given them words to be able to be curious with their own state. And that. That's. That's it. That's kind of everything, actually, because, I mean, I appreciate you sharing that example, Jesse. Like, I appreciate that so very much, because that's just huge human. Right? [00:37:59] Speaker A: Right. Like, we do it with all the people in our lives. Right? [00:38:03] Speaker B: Yeah. It's about being able to say, I'm gonna take a beat and I'm gonna self assess and I'm gonna see the big picture. And then I'm gonna move towards repair, which is obviously what you did with Becca. And what is. [00:38:15] Speaker A: We're good now, Becca, right? [00:38:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:17] Speaker A: Just kidding. [00:38:18] Speaker B: Hold on one second, everybody pause. Listeners, I need to do a check in. We're good. [00:38:22] Speaker C: Oh, let's do a two sentence shout out for repair though. Because there was a text. Text. And then we saw each other in person. And then we had another meeting at work. And the meeting at work is where we actually were like, okay, hold on. [00:38:33] Speaker B: Are we good? [00:38:33] Speaker C: Let's talk about this. [00:38:34] Speaker A: We're okay. [00:38:35] Speaker C: We're good. And then move forward. And it would have been easy to either not text at all. It would have been easy to just like not mention it, or it would have been easy to like, let's talk about it in text and then we'll never speak of it again. But there was both. There was like, let's talk about it in the moment. And then when we come back together, we're at our workday the next week. Let's. Okay, we're good. And move forward. [00:38:57] Speaker A: That happened. [00:38:58] Speaker C: That happened. I love each other. [00:39:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:01] Speaker B: Thanks for letting me. [00:39:02] Speaker C: I think what we actually said was we were like, that doesn't happen very often. That was weird. We were like, whoa. But yeah. [00:39:09] Speaker A: So I felt like we graduated in our friendship, honestly. [00:39:11] Speaker B: Me too. [00:39:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:12] Speaker B: Okay. We can unpack that for a long time because that is actually also what happened. Happens. [00:39:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:18] Speaker B: With us and with our kids. Yeah. You even saying, like you graduated in your friendship. There is something so beautiful about the closeness after repair. [00:39:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:28] Speaker B: When we give our kiddos the ability to, like, model and support insight to themselves. Again, you said it. It is not an excuse for behavior. It is an understanding behind behavior. And when we understand how and why we do something, we actually have more power to stop doing it or to cut it short. So it won't happen as often or as long or as frequently as it did before. So this is the helpful part of understanding. We all are in a neurological state all the time. This is why we talk so much about whole child support and whole human support or adult support as you guys just talked about. So we don't know what all is going on, but if we can have some insight into their ability. One of one. Another thing we talk about here a lot. I think it may be we have an infographic about this idea on our website as well. And there's a quote at the bottom of that that talks about, like, your ability to do something doesn't always match your capacity to do it in the moment. Right. So just because I'm capable of something doesn't mean I have the capacity to do it right now. To your point, you could clean up your room last week. Yeah. [00:40:54] Speaker C: You have the skills. [00:40:55] Speaker B: That's right. [00:40:55] Speaker C: You just don't have access to the skills when you're not in their best regulated state. [00:41:00] Speaker B: That's right. Because your window of tolerance is lower. Okay, any closing thoughts about this idea of my kiddo won't act their age, age, stage and state closing? Maybe a word of encouragement to parents or caregivers as they're thinking about this. [00:41:17] Speaker C: Maybe if you're like, okay, guys, that was a lot, a lot, a lot of talking. And that sounds like a lot, a lot, a lot of thinking. It is maybe what I would say, if that's you listening, is it is. And you're probably also ruminating a lot on this. If you're having the feeling, why won't my kid act their age? There's probably a little bit of anger, maybe some frustration, maybe even some resentment building up or some bitterness. So if you're already spending time thinking about it, we're just asking you to use some of that time to consider some of these other factors. And just as much as you can within your stress capacity, be creative on how to help them move forward. Whether that's, you know what, I'm going to pay more attention to their state. Are they hot, hungry, tired? Are they overwhelmed? Okay. And maybe you're working on that. Okay. Now I want to really think about their stage. How could we build organization skills in a 7 year old or a 17 year old in an age appropriate way? What are things we could try to do? So just, it gives a little bit of a pathway forward. I think that's my encouragement is if you can change the way you're thinking, it's okay to feel that feeling. Why won't they act their age? Just try to move forward from that feeling with some intentionality. That's all it is. [00:42:36] Speaker A: I think my encouragement would be, what is your ultimate goal? You know, your, your goal for this moment might be that they clean their room, but what's your goal for them as you, you know, at the end of your parenting journey, you know, so to speak, if there is an end. I love that Becca was like, I can see, I can see your relationship, the future of that and the seeds being planted now and whether it's you want that child to thrive in their adult life. And literally, what does that look like to you? Right. For them, because that, that's pulling apart our expectations from it. But what, what does that look like? And I think when Becca said that, I was like, that is my goal. My goal is that I've got a, I've got a relationship with my kids and that they know they can come to me, that it's open, that it's, you know, they've got the open invitation to me in the moment. That's not always what I'm keeping in mind. So that would be my encouragement to you is like, step back or take a deep breath. We've all, we are all there constantly. [00:43:46] Speaker B: Yep. [00:43:47] Speaker A: What's your goal? [00:43:48] Speaker B: I love that. Thank you guys both for sharing and it was a awesome to be with y'all today. Thanks. [00:43:59] Speaker A: We hope you enjoyed the episode. If you're interested in learning more, head to empoweredtoconnect.org for our library of resources. Thank you to Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music. On behalf of everyone at etc, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. In the meantime, let's hold on to hope together. Sa.